In EP 58 of The Wild Womn Hotline, we are joined by Personal Brand Coach, Jason Cercone who takes us into the world of building brand authority and the sought-after “know, like, trust” factor through the podcasting medium.
During this conversation, Jason shares how he helps entrepreneurs, leaders, and professionals leverage the brand-building power of the podcast medium to establish authority, increase visibility, and accelerate personal brand growth.
What sets Jason apart from other experts in the industry? In his words, he is “a very no-BS, straightforward guy who believes in telling it like it is. I don’t buy into “guru shit” and want to make sure everyone is building their brands with realistic expectations”.
As a coach, Jason is extremely passionate about building your personal brand with podcasting, using the podcast platform for networking, and creating compelling content to make your brand stand out.
Tristan Thibodeau is the founder of Wild Womn Haus and is a brand strategist for entrepreneurs in the wellness, beauty, and lifestyle brand industries.
She specializes in helping companies create and maintain their image. She works with market research, industry analysis, and consumer trends to offer strategic insights for brands so that they can enhance their marketing efforts and grow their bottom line.
Jason Cercone is a personal brand coach, creator, and podcaster. He helps entrepreneurs, leaders, and professionals leverage the brand-building power of the podcast medium to establish authority, increase visibility, and accelerate personal brand growth.
He also hosts Evolution of Brand, a podcast featuring authentic entrepreneurs and professionals sharing inspirational stories and tactical brand-building strategies to help you succeed in your professional pursuits.
Connect with Jason Cercone:
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: [00:00:00] All right, Jason, so you and I have collaborated a ton on a lot of different resources for our communities and for anybody that might be new to you and who you are in the space of branding. Can you talk a little bit about what it is that you specialize in and really how you help entrepreneurs to succeed with their brands?
GUEST: Jason Cercone: Absolutely, yes, as you said, Tristan and I’ve had the pleasure of collaborating on a number of different projects and they’ve all been worthwhile. So anybody listening that hasn’t experienced those should definitely do some digging and find what Tristan and I have done in the past. But yeah, what my big specialty is I, I work in the podcast space mainly, but.
I work in personal branding. I help people build their personal brand through the podcast space, and mainly what I look at is the guesting side of the podcast element. Being a value-driven podcast guest can open up so many windows of opportunities for you and your brand if you. [00:01:00] Approach it with respect and you do things the right way.
And there are a lot of people that try to leverage the podcast platform as a sales mechanism that usually falls flat. And if you’re not putting yourself in this position of being a valuable resource that not only impacts the audiences that you’re talking to but also sets yourself, you set yourself up as a resource for the podcasters.
They’re gonna do selling for you. They’re gonna tell their audience why they recommend you, why they think you’re so good, why they saw something in you, and that’s why they’re why they brought you on the show. That’s really where I try to put my attention, which is helping people understand these fundamental skills of how to be a value-driven podcast guest, how you can build your credibility and establish your authority, and take your personal brand to new heights by being this valuable podcast.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: And I think that is so [00:02:00] important in my experience, being predominantly a host. I’m working on being a guest more frequently right now, and it is A, so much fun. And B, the networking, just podcasting in general. The networking is absolutely incredible. But I’ve had some really. , uh, interesting experiences with people that I’ve brought on to be a guest on my podcast where what you’re talking about, just etiquette, preparation, knowing how to provide value, not turning everything into a sales pitch has really made it my, has made my job as the host and the person producing the show.
10 times more difficult than it needs to be, which ultimately takes away from what I have to put into the show because then you have to go back and correct errors. You have to try and Frankenstein an episode together so that it delivers some form of value. So when you say podcast etiquette or best practices, or [00:03:00] how to be a value-driven host, can we just dive into some specifics of what that looks like for anybody that is maybe new to you and your e.
GUEST: Jason Cercone: Oh, I’d love to. I mean, I think that the way I look at this, why I feel like the value that I bring to the table when I’m working with somebody is that I’m also a podcaster. I, I’ve been podcasting for almost eight years now, and I currently host a show called Evolution of Brand. When you listen to that show, what I can tell you about it now is, is an amalgam of all the experience that I’ve gained over the years, and a lot of those mistakes have been, I mean, a lot of that experience has come from mistakes.
I’ve learned some things have been really effed up a lot of different elements and it’s taught me how to do things right. So when I’m talking to somebody, I can talk to you as if you’re, if we’re working together and you’re looking to be a guest on shows, I know what a podcaster is looking for. I know what they want in their guests so they can create good content that helps them grow their audience, have their message spread to a much [00:04:00] further part of the world, and then that brings them more opportunity.
So if you can contribute to that growth, that puts you in a good space. So in regard to etiquette, if you are on the guest. You have to respect what the podcaster is after. On the host side, you have to know what the guest is after and when the two of those elements come together and there’s some synergy that leads to better chemistry, to where there’s an actual conversation that breaks out between host and guest versus the host asking a question and the guest just trying to sell a product or service, or the host not actively listening to what the guest is.
Because they have a bullet-point list of questions that they have to get through or else this won’t be successful. No. When you have that chemistry, you get an organic conversation that breaks out and it’s compelling, it’s deep. It goes beneath those normal surface-level questions that podcast guests have been asked a hundred times on a hundred different shows.
And that’s what creates [00:05:00] content that people stand up and notice when you can put that in front of your audience and they can say, Ooh, this is a little bit different. I’ve heard this person in other podcasts, but Tristan is going deeper with them. They’re taking time to dive into their story and learn more about how they’ve built their brand and how they’ve had to overcome all these obstacles.
I love this. If I feel that way after I listen to a podcast, chances are I’m gonna tell a friend or I’m gonna tell a c. You need to listen to this too. I learned so much. You as a podcaster, needs that type of exponential growth to get your show to take off and to continue to build. So the easiest way to look at etiquette is you have to respect one another from both sides.
And when you’re coming in as the guest come in with the mindset of, I’m here to provide value. I’m not here to sell. This is not a transaction. I wanna build relationships with each and every person I’m communicating. And if you’re the host, treat your guest respect in the thought process of [00:06:00] I’m gonna serve them some good questions.
I’m gonna elicit some great responses. We’re gonna dig a little bit deeper into what they’ve done, and that’s gonna help them tell some stories that maybe they’ve never told before that makes for better content. And when that happens, everybody wins.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: Mm-hmm. . And one of my absolute favorite questions to ask, and I.
Sincerely apologize Jason. Cause I did not ask you this question so I can’t even say, this is one of the questions I always ask cuz there we go. Is I love to ask people before we start recording. What do you never get to talk about that you are really passionate about? And that was something that I didn’t get the opportunity to ask you.
So what is something that you are really passionate about as a podcaster that you don’t get the opportunity to talk about? And let’s go there because literally putting these principles into practice as we’re speaking so people can see how this plays out, I think is a really interesting approach to teaching this concept that you’re talking about.
So what is something that you don’t get to talk about very often on podcasts? [00:07:00] You absolutely love.
GUEST: Jason Cercone: I love that question. And I’ll be honest, I’ve never gotten that question before. I, I think it, I, I wanna stay on the same subject because I feel it’s incredibly important if you’re not taking time to create compelling content.
You’re not giving audiences a reason to stay loyal to your con or loyal to your podcast, and then recommend that podcast to others. There’s just too many options out there, and if somebody else is going the extra mile to dig a little bit deeper, deeper and below the surface with somebody, and to define that, let me say like, we’ll use an author for example.
This is often something I talk about. My show. Cause I have a lot of authors that come on my podcast and it’s just, the example works if you have an author on your show and you say to them, tell us about writing your book. That’s so surface level. And they’ve probably had to answer that question 150 times in numerous platforms, not just podcasts.
So they’re gonna have a canned [00:08:00] response, but if you say something, When you were writing your book and you were putting the chapters together, you’d say you got the chapter 10 and you just hated everything. Did you just have this irresistible urge to hit the delete button and start over because you hated everything you created so far?
It’s more of a deep dive and if they have experienced anything even remotely close to that, they’re gonna tell a good story. And that’s what people show up to podcasts to hear. So you have to be thinking on this level of what can I do to make my content more compelling from both sides? When you’re the host, when you’re creating these questions and, and then building these show formats, you have to think.
What’s gonna make my audience really grab hold of this and stay with me from start to finish if you’re a guest, the way that most guests present themselves to podcasts is with some suggested questions that they can hit a home run [00:09:00] with. If I’m building a show format and someone does that for me, I look at every one of those and I’ll say, okay, I, I’m gonna use this and maybe doctor it up a little bit, or it’s like, this is perfect as is.
I’m gonna ask it verbatim. So I’m always thinking a couple steps ahead. That’s my process. But if you’re on the guest side and you give these compelling questions that elicit these great responses and start good conversations, you’re already ahead of the game. And that podcaster knows when they ask that question, they’re gonna get a good response from you.
And it’s all about creating this compelling, engaging conversation at the end of the day. So when new audience members hear it, I should say, when old audience members hear it, they love it. They keep digging in deeper, and then they turn around and share it with new audience members. That’s how you grow.
And then everybody wins when that happens. So yes, compelling content all the way for the win. If you’re not thinking on that level, your podcast simply can’t grow. And if you’re not being a compelling, engaging guest, you really can’t benefit the way that you [00:10:00] would if you put yourself into this position to really dig deep and go into your authentic story and tell it to the world.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: And that’s one of the things I love most about podcasting, is that you get to have a completely different type of conversation than you can. Anywhere else in the online space, the conversations that you’re gonna have on a podcast are vastly different than the type of content that you’re gonna write, because just short form content in general, you only have so much space and so much time.
Whereas with a podcast, you get to take those natural pauses. You get to think, you get to say, well, you know, based on this experience here, and you get to really go down a very natural rabbit hole of how the human mind works to where it. So intimate, and it feels like such a much deeper connection than what you can create.
through a piece of Instagram content or even through something like a blog or something like that. Podcasting is just so unique, [00:11:00] and I love that you use it specifically to help people grow their personal brand. Because the way that you speak and the way that you deliver and the way that the words that you use, the way you tell stories, nobody else is gonna tell a story the way that you organically tell a story.
And that in and of itself, the voice that you speak with is something that is gonna so powerfully shape your brand, whether it’s a business brand or a personal brand. And so what have you seen be some of the results of people that maybe you’ve worked with or even with your own personal brand that podcasting has helped you accomplish with your brand and your business?
GUEST: Jason Cercone: From my side, just having these powerful conversations. The more that I have them, the more confident I’ve gotten on the microphone and I’m still getting better. I still work at this every day between vocal exercises, through practicing. I’m trying to do the best I possibly can do when I’m a guest and when I’m a host.
And I’m never going to get complacent because I know it happens. I’ve done that before. It, it, it’s not [00:12:00] pretty. But in working with others, one of the greatest things that I experience, and it really is what makes me want to continue doing this, it keeps me motivated, is watching someone feel like they just can’t do it.
They don’t have a voice. I can, I’m never gonna be able to master this. I’m never gonna be able to cut, um, out of my. When they finally do it just because it, it comes naturally the more practice swings you put in. It’s so awesome to see somebody make that discovery because that confidence spills over to so much more than just podcasting.
That’s something I teach a lot in this program that I have, and just when I’m talking with others in this space, because I, I feel like everyone needs to understand that the skill that you develop on the microphone, it’s gonna make you confident in regards to how you tell your brand story here on the podcasts that you’re on.
But this is gonna. Translate to how you talk to your colleagues, how you give presentations to your [00:13:00] team, how you talk to your customers, how you talk to your loved ones, because your voice projects in a, a much more powerful way. You speak with more conviction and you’re more confident in how you are delivering your message.
And Tristan, you know this as a brand strategist. That message is what it’s all about. And if you’re not relaying something that people can grab ahold of and really resonate with, it’s not going to get you very far. And developing it here, translating it to other areas is it’s huge. And that can work in reverse too.
If you’re a public speaker, bring it to the microphone with you. It’s a different environment. May take you a couple practice runs, but once you get comfortable and realize that you’re just having a convers. These skills are so effective in all areas of your life, I can’t recommend it enough because it’s gonna take your brand So far,
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: and I can speak into that from a host [00:14:00] perspective and a guest perspective because there have been so many instances, and it is, this is one of the most rewarding parts of being a host is when somebody comes on.
and they tell me that they’re nervous, that they had anxiety beforehand, and they, they wrote out everything that they wanted to say, and we go completely in the opposite direction. And they have a killer conversation with me. And they get to experience themselves in a whole new light, sharing their passion, using their voice, sharing their perspective, positioning themselves as a thought leader unintentionally, because they’re just genuinely enjoying the conversation.
And by the time the eye hits end on the recording. They go, oh my gosh, I can’t believe I was anxious. That was so much fun. That was so much fun and it’s so rewarding for me to get to witness people really. Get out of the shell of, I’m gonna say the wrong thing. This isn’t gonna make sense. I don’t have any original thoughts.
I don’t have anything to share. And it’s so incredible to [00:15:00] watch somebody like harness that thought leader within them and say, you know, I’ve always thought this, or I feel this, or I think this. How amazing is that, that you get to be in a position where I care about nothing other than your perspective for an.
Right. That is hundred percent so cool. So from the host perspective, that is something incredibly rewarding that I get to experience from the guest perspective. I have surprised the hell out of myself more times than I can count when I go on a podcast thinking, oh, I’m just gonna say the same shit that I’ve said over and over and over again.
And they ask me a question that sparks a thought that I’ve had ruminating for months now, and I just get to share my perspective. And by the end of the conversation they. Wow, that was a really incredible conversation. So you get to surprise yourself and the confidence, like you’re talking about, the confidence that that has given me to trust my perspective and to really stand in my unique [00:16:00] point of view is invaluable as, as a professional and as an entrepreneur.
GUEST: Jason Cercone: 100%. And I think that speaks a ton to how the host manages their podcast. If you can make your guests feel comfortable and at ease and just, just flow, just talk, just have a natural conversation people want to be a part of that type of environment. I’ve experienced the opposite of where you show up and it’s rigid and there’s no structure, and maybe to a small degree there’s too much structure because there’s no real conversation taking place. It’s just I’m seeing a point and no one’s actually gonna come back with a counterpoint.
Something to add on top of that, they just ask the next question, ask the next question on their list, because they feel like that’s the only thing that’s in play here is getting through all of these questions. [00:17:00] That doesn’t make somebody feel comfortable. That doesn’t make somebody feel like their expertise is being valued.
So if you’re taking time to make somebody feel at ease, and I know Tristan, you do this in your pre communication as well, letting somebody know what they’re in. Is gonna make the is, it’s going to put their mind at ease and make them a more comfortable guest. And if you’re thinking on that level that maybe somebody’s done a hundred podcasts before, maybe this is their first interview, I treat everybody like it’s their first interview and let them know what to expect.
Because I want them to be at their best. I want them to bring their A game, and I don’t want them to feel like there’s any reason to be nervous. So you’re, as the host, you really steer that ship. And if you can do it well, Environment that you create is something that more people are gonna want to be a part of.
And they will, the guests may say, I’ve got five colleagues that want, that I, I know would be great for your show. Can I introduce you and what are you gonna say? No, of course not. [00:18:00] So yeah, you open up these great opportunities just by being a normal human being and creating a welcoming atmosphere.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: Yeah, and this is something, if you think about it, the podcast medium.
How many other opportunities do you get to listen to the way that somebody’s mind works and the expertise that they have for 30 minutes, 45 minutes, an hour? I mean, some people go hour and a half, two hour episodes, right? Mm-hmm. , how often do you get the opportunity to just hear the way that people’s minds work?
I think that is one of the most expansive from a listener of podcasts. That is one of the. Expansive and rewarding experiences with content that I have had on any other type of platform where I listen to somebody that I admire or I listen to somebody that’s an expert in an arena that I know very little about or that I’m curious about, and you just get to hear the way that their mind works in terms of how they approach problem solving.
I’ve learned [00:19:00] more from that, from viewing problems through their perspective than I have taking courses or doing anything else is, it’s literally just shifting the way that your mind processes questions or problems or scenarios, gives you so much perspective. And so, I mean, all I’m doing right now is validating the val, like , how valuable podcasting is, but I really do have an appreciation for it, and I think it’s, it’s such a good skill set like you keep talking about to.
To really expand your confidence as an expert, but also just using your voice in general.
GUEST: Jason Cercone: Mm-hmm. , I feel that when you think about the, just the, the simple dynamic of what podcasting is all about, there aren’t many other environments to where someone is going to give you their attention for that extended period of time anymore.
We live in this world of TikTok videos and Instagram reels and YouTube shorts where everything is given to me now. It’s been 15 seconds. Oh my God, I gotta go to the next one. I’m gonna freak out if I, you know what I mean? Like [00:20:00] it’s so quick. But with a podcast, people are going to put you in their ear for an extended period of time, and you have this window to impact them.
You have to appreciate that because in most other scenarios, they are looking for the quickest. Out of whatever situation they’re in. If they’re, if there’s a situ or there’s an issue they’re having, they’re going to Google or YouTube, they’re looking for a quick fix, give me a response to solve this problem as fast as possible so I can move on with my life.
Mm-hmm. . But as a, on a podcast, if you can grab their attention and you can keep that attention by giving them riveting content, there’s, it, it’s, it’s pretty much impossible to replicate that anywhere else these days. So, Be that person that brings value to the microphone on both sides. I’m talking hosting guest to create that engaging conversation.
So when people tune in, you’ve got them. They are in the seats. Their asses are not moving [00:21:00] for as long as you go. That’s what it’s all about. And the impact you can make in that time. Could literally change everything you’re doing with your brand.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: Whoa. Okay. Mic drop on that one. And you know I am, this whole time I am just thinking Jason’s been in this world, he said for the last eight years you have so much experience, but you’ve also witnessed the podcast medium evolve over time. So I’m really curious from your perspective, if somebody is either an existing podcast host or they’re considering starting a podcast, or even from a guest perspective, if somebody is stepping in and maybe they have a perception of what works with podcasts and what doesn’t, what would you say are the things that people tend to focus too much on that used to work?
That no longer work or by work, just effective, valuable, compelling versus where it’s evolved, where this [00:22:00] medium has evolved, cuz you’ve seen it grow basically over the course of a decade.
GUEST: Jason Cercone: Yeah, I, I mean, when I jumped in in 2015, I don’t remember the exact number that, or exact number of active podcasts that were out there, but I was also a very naive little boy when I jumped into the podcasting space.
Me and my best friend started a beer podcast with pretty much no planning. Started outta spite because I wanted to make a podcast better than some other guy who trolled me on Twitter. Stupid, right? I mean, these are stories that I’m proud to tell because I can tell anybody, don’t do this. It doesn’t work.
So, I learned a lot. I mean, I actually, in that time, after we did that show and it ran its course, I started another show and then realized that I need to take some time off. I really wanna learn this. I love podcasting. It takes me back to my radio days when I was in college. But I want to get really good at this and I wanna see how others are doing it.
So yeah, I’ve seen a lot go up and a lot go down and I can. The learning curve has flattened a ton because [00:23:00] back when I first started, we could get away with screwing some things up and maybe not doing any editing or whatever we did that was wrong because people were just starting to get familiar with these things called podcasts 2022.
As we sit and record this episode today, people have a pretty good understanding of what this is, and if they turn on something that has terrible sound quality, If they turn on a podcast that has like a five minute song intro followed by a 10 minute monologue that talks about nothing, and they tuned into that show because you said in the title, this is what you’re talking about.
They’re out. You have to grab people’s attention quickly. I think the biggest difference between what we’re doing with podcasting now and what we’re, what I saw eight years ago, again with the learning curve for sure, but you have to be in that mindset of the three second. Twitter, or I’m saying the Instagram reels, the thes, it’s a different time limit, [00:24:00] but at the same time, it’s really not because you only have a couple minutes to grab somebody’s attention on your podcast.
Because if you don’t, they’re going to go find somebody that’s giving them what they want or they’re just gonna fast forward through all of the shit that you’re putting in front of them to get to the meat and potatoes of why they showed up. So just get ’em there. Get ’em to the value as fast as possible.
I think that is the biggest change that I’ve seen is the podcasters that are savvy and they’re doing the right thing by their audience. They have cut out all the. And they are just setting the table for what they’re going to give their audience, and they get ’em to it. That’s what’s gonna keep ’em in the seats.
You need them to stay in the seats for the entire episode, or else they have no reason to recommend your show to others, and that’s gonna stunt your growth. So biggest thing I see now is, The quality of the content has to be on par from start to finish in every aspect. So make sure you have [00:25:00] good microphones.
Make sure you’re not recording inside of a garbage can. Make sure that you don’t have dogs barking and lawn mowers going off and leaf blowers going. I mean, there’s so many things that can disrupt the flow of a podcast where a listener could say, I don’t want to listen to this. I’m not going to, I’ll go over to this podcast.
It’s talking about the same thing. Maybe this guest talked over there and they actually cared about the sound quality. You have to think about your listener experience, and I think as this whole medium world has evolved, people have gotten smart to that. And they’re starting to pay more attention to the final product they bring to their customer in, in this case, is their listener.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: Agreed. Agreed. And there have been so many challenges I’ve had as an in-home podcaster because this is what I have available to me. Mm-hmm. , I, I need to, uh, improve the acoustics. Of my office. I’m literally working with a designer right now to help me do so. Right? I live [00:26:00] close to an airport, there’s airplanes flying over.
My kitchen is right next to my office. I can hear my fiance using the freaking food processor, right? So there’s all of these things that play into it and, and those could be perceived as barriers to entry. Well, I don’t have a well insulated room. I don’t, you know, my neighborhood is noisy, all of these things.
But literally it’s just, I think there’s this fine balance between working with what you have so you can get started sooner than later, and still being cognizant of what can I control and what can I do? What can I introduce to improve the, like right now there’s an airplane flying over.
There is this really fine line between what you can control and what you cannot control, and I think that that’s ultimately a decision that you have to make as somebody that’s interested in podcasting and that’s interested in sharing your voice.
That nothing is ever going to be perfect. Until, like literally until you can invest in a production team, a studio, like all of these different things, it’s [00:27:00] probably never gonna be as good of quality as it can be. And yet you can still care about the quality of the product that you’re putting out by doing things like, you know, I mentioned I’m, I’m bringing on a designer to help me with the acoustics of my office cuz it does sound a little Tim Canny in here.
Right? I can get a better quality mic that is in my control. I can use the functionality of my record. Software to pause or to mute if there’s an airplane flying over me. Things like that. Don’t let those little things be barriers to entry to you getting started. Cuz there’s always solutions. And I think especially when you are starting out, and by starting out, I mean.
Under a hundred episodes, you’re still a new podcast, right? Mm-hmm. . So if we use that as the standard, I think people do have a certain level of understanding of what you’re working with, but you still have to show up for them and say, I’m gonna do the absolute best with what I got, and make sure that everything is as top quality as it possibly can be.
So if we’re talking to that person, do you have [00:28:00] recommendations on how to. Create the absolute best environment for recording the best. You know, sound, quality, production, value, all of these things. For somebody that is an at home podcaster, .
GUEST: Jason Cercone: Yeah. I, I think most of us are at home podcasters. I mean, I’ve fashioned a studio in my house as well.
And that’s the thing, like you don’t have to break the bank. And I think, you know, as entrepreneurs, as podcasters, as humans, we’re going to always try to put obstacles in front of ourselves. I’ll never understand that mentality, but we all do it right. There’s always gonna be some reason why we shouldn’t get started today.
But with podcasting, you’re right tr and you need to work with what you have and you don’t have to break the bank. But the, the biggest thing that you can do is, you know, I think , especially for if you’re, you’re just starting fresh or even if you’re a few episodes deep, or even in that under a hundred episodes deep, some semblance of a good microphone is probably the most important [00:29:00] piece of hardware that you can have.
And again, it’s, it, it doesn’t have to sound like you’re in the. Plush professional, well-designed studio in the world. You just have to sound clear. You don’t, you just, you don’t wanna sound like you’re speaking on an internal microphone because that just doesn’t sound good. That’s it. And if it that as regards, you can hook up to a usb as long as you don’t sound like you are underground.
Then you’re already ahead of what a lot of podcasters have put out into the world. Myself included, back in the day, very first episode, recorded it in a noisy bar. Imagine that listener experience, right? I don’t care what type of house or an apartment or whatever you live in, I guarantee you have a closet record from your closet.
I’ve seen many podcasters do this. That sound is going to be. [00:30:00] As good as it gets from an at home perspective. Mm-hmm. . Now you don’t have to be sitting in the closet, but again, this is again there. There are natural noise absorbers in your clothing, in your drapes, in your pillows, in your carpeting. All of these things are going to help.
So if you can just get to that level with it, you’re ready to rock. The most important thing to think about when you’re doing this is not to get hung up on this. Get something that works. Get something that’s going to serve you, but be in a position that you can show up for your audience consistently, because that’s what they truly care about.
For someone to fall in love with a podcast, and more importantly, fall in love with you, and this is if you’re on the guest side, making consistent guest appearances on podcasts that are relevant to your space. If you’re hosting your own show, come at your people When you say you’re going to comment them.
If it’s weekly, do it weekly, bi weekly. Biweekly fine as long as you’re communicating with your audience as to [00:31:00] when you are going to deliver them content, and then you don’t leave them hanging. That gives them a good opportunity to fall in love with you. You want that in your life. You want people listening to your show every Thursday morning if that’s when it comes out.
If they listen to it on the way to work, if they listen to it at the gym. If they work you into their life, that’s good because the more you impact them, the more they’re prone to tell others to listen to your show as well. But if you end up, if you end last week’s show by saying, it’s been a great episode.
We’ll see you next week, and then you don’t have a show next week, they’re gonna be, well, where’s Tristan’s show? I, I listened to this every Thursday. Okay. Okay. I’m gonna listen to Jason’s show now. All of a sudden I may work into that Thursday morning time slot in their free. And it’s harder for you to get back in that rotation.
Creating quality content as consistently as you possibly can is what’s gonna help your podcast grow. It’s really the only way you can grow because people have to know that you [00:32:00] are with them and they have to have a reason to tell others. If a podcast says they’re gonna be there and then they’re not, why the hell would I turn around and tell my friends to listen to it?
Oh yeah, go listen to this show. They put out one last week, but maybe they’ll be here this week. They might come back next week too. Everyone’s gonna be like, are you nuts? No. I’m gonna listen to this show that I listen to because they’re there for me. So make sure you’re creating your content as quality as you possibly can.
Do not get hung up on all kinds of techy equipment, but be consistent and be committed to your podcast. When you do that, that’s gonna get you engrossed. And if you truly love what you’re doing, then maybe you throw a little bit of money at it, but you don’t have to break the bank to make this work.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: Agreed. And one thing you’re talking about that I know is super important is the consistency piece. And I remember when I was first getting started in podcasting, , all of the things felt so overwhelming, [00:33:00] and for anybody that’s maybe not yet in podcasting but wants to be or is in podcasting and still hasn’t figured out a system or a rhythm for how they can create consistent content, because if we really think about it, There are a lot of steps that have to happen, and maybe I’m over complicating it.
I would love to hear your perspective of what has to happen from inviting somebody on to then publishing and promoting the episode. So if we had to think about stages or steps or something that would help somebody to really streamline their production process so that they can be consistent and uphold that accountability that they’ve given their word to their audience that they’re going to uphold, how can you support them?
Or is there a process that you love to recommend to help people be co. .
GUEST: Jason Cercone: There’s really no way around the preparation that you have to do before, during, and after your [00:34:00] podcast production, but there are two ways that you can help yourself in this process. One would be don’t think you have to produce some long, epic episode each and every week.
Make sure that you are working within your time constraints so you don’t stress yourself. I’ll never forget this. I was at podcast movement back in 2021 and me and one of my friends were talking with this guy who was telling us how much he was struggling with making his podcast come out and making it grow.
And one of the questions asked was, how long are your episodes? Or two hours? And we both of like two hours. How often? Oh, every week. Like, well dude, if you’re stressed, like there’s your answer. You’ve got a month’s worth of content in one episode, just chop it up. Oh, I. I gotta, it’s gotta be this long. I’m like, no, it doesn’t.
There’s ways to do it if you’re willing to [00:35:00] listen. No, they have to be two hours. I’m like, okay, there’s just no winning this battle. But that’s the thing, if you’ve got all, you’ve got a limited amount of time and you’re trying to produce an epic every single time, you’re going to burn out and you’re going to walk away from your project.
So create content that is conducive to your time constraint. And guess what? A half an hour is a damn good time window for a podcast. You can learn a lot in that time window. Think about all the great sitcoms of the world. They’re half an hour or less and you get you. Maybe you don’t learn something, but you’re entertained.
So that’s a good place to start. Number two is batching. You can schedule two to three interviews and actually have content backed up in, we call it in the can. So you can. Do other things in your life and not have your life revolve around creating podcast content. So if you [00:36:00] have six episodes recorded, edited, set to go, you can take a little break, take a couple weeks off because you’ve got your content set to go.
That’s a good feeling. Then you can recharge. You can keep your energy levels up, and it will make you want to come back and keep getting better at this. But if you get to a point where you’re immediately putting yourself at a deficit, It hurts and it, it’s hard to bounce back because you start to build up in your mind that this isn’t working, this isn’t working.
And all I do is stress myself out. Why am I doing this? Why am I bringing this stress into my life? Boom, you implode. Game over. And that’s, again, super hard to bounce back from and listen again. Speaking from experience, did this with one of my past podcasts. Didn’t plan right. Realized immediately that I need to be thinking long term on this project if I wanna make it work.
And now it’s almost embarrassing how far ahead I am because I took this advice of my own to heart. But [00:37:00] it also gives me a lot of flexibility and I can release additional content when I want to, and it’s just allowing me to continue building up my bank and it makes my overall product much better. So work within your time constraint.
Batch your content. Two great ways to keep control of things.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: That’s great advice. And I do have a follow up question that I think would be awesome to end on, and that is for somebody that may be feeling, um, disenchanted or maybe a little burnt out with social media, what opportunities does podcasting open up?
Because from a brand strategy perspective, from a marketing perspective, I think having a. Presence. Is pretty much a non-negotiable at this point, but how much you lean on that social presence and how much you rely on that social presence is really up to you. And what other channels of marketing you open up for your business.
For visibility and exposure and lead [00:38:00] generation and things like that. Mm-hmm. . So from your perspective, you’ve worked with people, you, you have a huge network of podcasters. What have you seen? Being possible for entrepreneurs to get their name out there and to market themselves without necessarily relying on their Instagram or relying on their Facebook or TikTok or whatever it may be.
GUEST: Jason Cercone: With podcasting. I, I tend to talk to everybody about the guessing aspect first, especially if you’re new to the game. If you’ve never done anything with podcasting, if you’re looking to get a, a start in this world of, okay, I’m burn out on doing reels, or I just don’t feel like I’m getting the traction I want on my social media accounts, what can I do that.
Still the same in context, but it might take me a different direction. I think podcasting could work. What should I do? Anytime someone asks themself that question, I think the first thought they say is, I have to start my own podcast, and that’s simply not the case. What I recommend everybody does, if you’re [00:39:00] fresh to this, is that you look at building a guesting campaign and you start looking at podcasts that are relevant to your space, to your niche.
If you can. Create powerful, compelling presentations as to why you could lend value to those shows. Get yourself booked as a guest. Start making an impact from the guest seat. And when you do that, you start to raise that no like and trust factor. You start to build credibility. You establish authority, you get confident with your voice.
And you’re networking with other podcasters so you can start to develop relationships. And this is really where I put my attention, is helping people understand the power that can be drawn from this platform. If you treat it with the respect it deserves, if you’re just treating it like a transaction, nothing’s gonna happen for you.
So as you do these interviews, you, you meet new people, you get [00:40:00] really, really good at telling your brand story. You find it new ways to tell your brand story, it it, or tell your brand story, it’s going to make you this confident speaker to where, let’s say six months to a year down the road, you may say, I freaking love this.
I’m gonna keep doing it, but now I’m gonna start my own podcast because I’ve learned so much about the podcast space and I’ve connected with so many people by doing these guesting opportunities, I have this pool of people that I can reach out to and say, Hey, I’m starting a podcast. Why don’t you come join me?
Because in the very beginning, I guarantee when you’re sitting down to plot out what you’re gonna do with a podcast, one of the biggest stresses you’re gonna have is, who the hell am I gonna talk to on my show? And there are absolutely services out there that will help you find. But that’s usually one of the big hurdles that may make somebody say, I don’t wanna do this cause I don’t have anybody to talk to.
So start with guessing, build your network, build your confidence, and put yourself in a position to where you may say, you know what? This is enough for me. [00:41:00] I have built my personal brand and taken it so far that I’m just gonna double down. Maybe I’ll start doing two interviews a day instead of one or 10 a week.
Whatever your number. And you may say, okay, I don’t even need to have my own podcast because this works. Or you can say, I’m gonna add my own podcast to my arsenal and I’m gonna start having impactful conversations, but I’ll be the one guiding it. And that’s gonna be good that you’ve had this. When you do that, it’ll be good that you’ve had this guesting experience because guess what?
What’s the best way to grow your. To be a podcast guest, start going on shows to promote that you have a podcast for people to listen to because you’re speaking to a captive audience of podcast listeners to tie this all back to social media. When you’re promoting your podcast on social media. They’re not necessarily podcast listeners.
Now, they may listen to podcasts in their time at the gym, around in their commute, wherever. When they see your social media promotions, they’re more than likely in one [00:42:00] of those infinite scrolls where they’re just mindlessly flowing through content. So the most you can hope for, that’d be the best thing that could happen, is that they see and go, Ooh, this is great.
I’m gonna go listen now. But more than likely, What they’re gonna need is something that plants a seed that says, when I’m going to work tomorrow, I’m gonna check out this podcast. So start as a guest, build your skill set, and then determine from there what the best direction is to go.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: Epic advice. Epic advice.
And I appreciate you so much coming on because every time I talk to you, I learn something new, I get a new perspective, and I just think. I not think, I know that you’re such a wealth of knowledge, and this is what you help people do is to become value driven podcast guests. So can you share with everybody listening who is has their ears perked and is like, oh, I’m really interested in this and I wanna get better at it.
I wanna use this as part of my, you know, PR marketing campaign, whatever it may be. How can people work with you? What does that look like? What’s the best way to get started?
GUEST: Jason Cercone: Best way to get started, [00:43:00] come over to my website and visit Jason scon.com/wild Woman House and I’ll have some great information there for you to get access to.
It’s a good jumping off point, so I look forward to having a conversation that with anyone that wants to explore this space and really learn how they can. Dig their heels in and get the most from it. So while you’re on my website, there’s a number of things that you can do, but start off by taking advantage of some of the free information.
I know we talked at the beginning about some of the things that Tristan and I collaborated on the workshop that we did is on my website, so you can check that out among a lot of other. Free resources that I have available, but jasons.com/wild Woman House is a great place to get started.
HOST: Tristan Thibodeau: There you go, guys.
That will all be linked in the show notes. So all you gotta do is flip your thumb down, go scroll and check it out, and it’ll be right there for you. But Jason, thank you so much for coming on. I always value our conversations. They’re always so much fun. [00:44:00] Like I said, I always learn at least one new thing when I talk to you, so that’s pretty awesome cuz we’ve done a lot together.
So the fact I keep learning and keep learning tells me that you’ve got just like treasure T tropes of information to give. So everybody go check out those links in the show notes if you’re looking for support in this area. Jason is definitely the person I always send people to and I just appreciate your time today. Thank you so much, Jason.
GUEST: Jason Cercone: Likewise Tristan. As always, this has been a blast.